JUST SOME THOUGHTS

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

JUST SOME THOUGHTS

Jackie · Mod Tour Expert

1. I agree they arent necessary but I dont think they are spending top dollar on them either, yes they cost alot but these teams are getting deals.

2. Wind Tunnels we need they why?

3. I agree are we doing the lucky dog or not? They take it away at a race that its most needed. Impound all races or none...\

4. The New mandated mufflers -Probably makes sense. Get everyone ot have the same thing

5. When will Nascar realize that follow the leader is BORING - How about running 100 laps every where . NO PIT STOPS. All double file re-starts. Completely agree on this one, whether it saves money or not let's make it enjoyable

6. Speaking of the 300 - It better be a 300 lapper and not that stupid 3 100 lappers

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Thank you for the response Jackie . The mufflers do make sense , and everyone running the same brand should help make things a bit more equal . It is just NASCAR always comes up with another way to make drivers and teams spend more money .

The hauler issue I still have problems with -- We have teams using open trailers vs. teams with $100,000 plus haulers . Yes teams may be getting a "deal" but, when you spend more money on a hauler than another team spends to go racing you should not complain about the purses . Beleive me I have heard more than one of the "big dollar" teams complain about the costs of running the Tour . I would like to see these teams try running with a budget like Jake or Wade have . That was my point with the big haulers .

The 300 is back to being a "true" 300 lap race . Thank goodness .

Again Thank You for your response . I wish more people would voice their opinions as well.

-- Edited by WhelenModifiedTour at 18:59, 2005-06-14

yankeeracer · YankeeRacer.com

1. The 18 wheelers may seem like overkill. But when you consider at least some of them are old Cup haulers (50 - old Brett Bodine rig, #79 - old Bahari transporter, just some of the examples). It is much easier to travel from PA NY CT up to Maine or down to Virginia, etc. It may save them money in the long run, not sure since I dont know the first things about what the bare minimum to get to every race would run.

2. Wind Tunnels - when I first read this I though you were joking. We don't need this. But in the neverending quest for speed, I guess that this is the next piece of the series' "evolution".

3. Lucky Dog for all tracks - especially bullrings like Riverhead where it is tough to pit and get back out under caution and not lose a lap!

4. Dont know how these mufflers are different - other than a common brand. Gotta put a limit on the increased pricing from the items you mentioned hit the nail right on the head. Don Hawk, where are the WMT racing coverage on TV - heard that they were supposed to get Jennerstown, Martinsville and the 2 Loudon races as a start! As of right now - roughly a month from Jennerstown/NHIS. Please continue to be a man of action!

5. Not sure on this one. Drivers need to be able to work their way through the field on the smaller tracks. Tire bills add up but the series as a whole just keep going up just to field a car. Secondly, glad to see the Thompson 300 as the true 300 not that tri-100 joke!

6. We need more of a draw to this event since this is our biggest race (aside from the prestigious, $, exposure of the NHIS/Martinsville races). We need a bigger purse but keep in mind that more tracks ran tour-type mods or modifieds for that matter 25-30 + years ago. Now the SK is king and that is not viable to get into a tour race obviously. I call it the fragmentation of the sport, which may kill its grass roots efforts. As local tracks premier division gets too expensive, the Modifieds, and now the Pro Stocks (rumors of SKs looking to do it as well) leave the local haunt in favor of moving on to the greener pastuers of a touring series. Also, tracks are not willing to help each other in this dog-eat-dog world of modern NASCAR- Big 3 extravaganza. Saturday night racing on TV is eradicating their bread and butter. Tracks cant have common rules. They need to ensure that their guys are there every week. The only one that benefits from this are the owners. Not the teams, drivers or fans. We need to get back to the way of the old Tri-Track series of the 1980s where guys could run multiple tracks. Even now that is feasible but American Racer is at Stafford and Thompson, Hoosier won't give up Waterford after losing "The Park" to "progress".

In additon, now more than ever - teams buy their race car - from chassis to engine to the other various suspension and safety components that make up these modern aerodynamic rockets. Part of this and the ability to have open checkbooks for the well-funded teams that have the mentality that if I wreck it "daddy or my big name sponsor" will buy a new one for me is a significant contributor to this mentality. It is more than the SK Mentality it is a mentality that has spilled over to various divisions. Case in point, the DARE Stocks at Stafford I think they race for $100 to win, like $75 for 2nd, etc. and the rest after a certain point get $20 or something like that. Don't hold me to that just going off the top of my head.

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Thanks Yankee for the responses .

Ok , it seems no one is understanding my hauler point . Yes the big haulers do make sense , but when you spen that kind of money just to haul your race car , can you seriously have the right to complain about the purse?

Secondly unfortunately the Wind tunnel testing is not a joke . Unique body styles I am all for but Wind tunnel testing should be absolutely banned , anyone found to be visiting a wind tunnel should be banned from competing on the Tour .

I absolutely agree with ALL tracks using the Lucky Dog. Or just do not ever use it . Not sometimes we do sometimes we do not .

The TV coverage is one that REALLY upsets me . It was stated way back at the Banquet that a television deal was only a signature away . Well how long does it take to sign a piece of paper? Mr. Hawk we are waiting.

As for the race distances I still feel 100 laps is more than enough . Look at the WOO ot the DIRT touring series . On tracks like Riverhead just do not count caution laps . Back in the days before the tour drivers competed in much shorter races , and the competition was much more intense . I stand by my 100 lap theory .Except for the 300 of course and maybee the combination race at Martinsville .

Speaking of the 300 I think everyone is happy to see the "true" 300 return . Now the race just needs to become a much larger event . This should be a 3 day event drawing 100+ teams . It is a possibility if the efforts were put forth . There are way more than 100 Tour Type Modifieds out there.

As for the money spent on cars. It is getting out of controll . Some teams are spending way too much money in these "lower" divisions . and yhou are 1000% correct on the open check book remark .

Thanx again Yankee . Hopefully we can get more people to respond . I really want to hear what the FANS have to say . without the fan there is no sport.

-- Edited by WhelenModifiedTour at 19:22, 2005-06-14

scott121476 · Moderator

>>>>>>>>I absolutely agree with ALL tracks using the Lucky Dog. Or just do not ever use it . Not sometimes we do sometimes we do not....... .

i have been totally against the lucky dog rule because all you have to do is be 1 car behind the leader...... if the yellow comes out and your a lap down, you should be a lap down.... END OF DISCUSTION!!!!!!

if the wmt should ever get a tv deal....... the races cant be less than 200 laps..... hooters cup always run 250 or 300 lap marathons...... would be meaningless to have 100 lap sprints.... WOO has 35 to 50 lap sprints because of the lack of fuel there carrying andi guess they dont like to fuel the cars.......

i have no idea what the hooters cup, BGNW series get for pay outs when there on tv.... but it would make more sence to increase the purses to 25k at least.. but the purse there getting now is just 1 step up from a weekly series...... and when your paying for a hauler and other stuff, how can you make money in the bussness ????

scott

MandyB · Stafford's Turn 1 "Princess"

Note: These are my takes on the subjects mentioned and are not to be noted as flame messages.

1. Whelen Modified teams are starting to look like NASCAR Cup drivers with their haulers. The minority of teams have just hauler and a truck. Most teams have 18-wheelers, and that doesn't sound right.

2. If you have the money to test via wind tunnels, you shouldn't be racing modifieds. What you should be doing is driving in the professional touring circuit (trucks, Busch, Cup). Insane.

3. Do not impound the cars, and Lucky Dog every time the caution shows. It's as simple as that.

4. Those "only XX dollars" products are the products running competitors' bills. Stop worrying about what kinds of products teams should have.

5. So then the Whelen tour will act like a weekly division? Nah. Keep the restarts the same. Single file, unless there's lapped traffic.

6. If I had a corporate sponsor and I had the money to support the 300, I would. But I'm not made of money. And I'm sure that's the reason why some corporate dude just doesn't step up and suppport the biggest race of the Whelen tour.

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Thanx for the responses Scott .

Personally I do not care for the Lucky Dog either, but if we are going to use it lets always use it .

If we ever get a TV deal then we can worry about TV lenght races . For now I still say lets go with 100 laps .

Well it has been said before if you are in racing to make money your in the WRONG buisness .

Thanx again for the responses . Please keep them coming .

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Thank You for responding Mandy .

The Impound to me should ALWAYS happen . Being a former crew member , I have a different perspective on this . The problem is that when cars are not impounded the "big dollar" teams can run their "special" parts for Time Trials . Better shocks , gears , transmissions etc . The average team is going to get beat every time . It makes for a much more level playing field for all teams . It is also a great way of reducing costs .

To me ALL restarts should be Double File . This is just a personal opinion , but to me it makes things much more interesting . Again this is just my opinion.

As for the corporate sponsorship for the 300 , there must be a company that would be willing to put up the money . The track itself could put up more by dropping some of the support divisions . when we already have a 300 lap event , how many other races do we really need? The race should pay $25,000 to win . It would attract many more teams , more teams equal more pit passes which in turn means more $$$ for the purse . Lap sponsorship should also be used even at $10 per lap that is $3000 dollars . I say charge $20 to $50 per lap sponsored ( a reasonable price) put at least half towards the winners purse. Th rest should go to LAST place on that lap and that laps leader . The other thing to do would be a 50/50 raffle half goes to the winner of the race and half to the lucky ticket holder . These are just some of crazy ideas , that work at other tracks.

Thanks again Mandy . Hope to hear from more people as well.

MandyB · Stafford's Turn 1 "Princess"

WhelenModifiedTour wrote:

The track itself could put up more by dropping some of the support divisions. when we already have a 300 lap event , how many other races do we really need?

I know. It's like some tracks don't need certain divisions. Like Thompson with the Thompson Modifieds or Stafford with the Limited Late Models. It's not like those two divisions are ever going to get enough competitors. They should just drop them before it's too late.

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Thanx again for another response Mandy.

That one I have trouble agreeing with 100% . I agree that the Thompson Modifieds and the Stafford Limited Late Models are hurting in car counts . Dropping the divisions may not be the right answer though . Perhaps they should not run every week , the teams that have invested in these cars deserve to race. The idea of these divisions was to create "affordable" racing divisions . It was a great "idea" but does not seem to be working to well.

Thanx again Mandy . Perhaps someone else will post a different view.

scott121476 · Moderator

there are some tracks that are willing to pay 15k to win....... but the rest is going to snowball

you think waterford is gonna put up 15k to 25k to win????? there is alot of WMT tracks right now that cant do the 15k to win or they dont want to.......

but you have a valid point WMTfan....... if they drop the lower divsions and say stafford runs a 300 lap show........ but the snowball effect would be most of the fans would like to see the undercard as well..... mike tyson fought this weekend...... before his fight there was a 5 match undercard miniuim.... so what i am saying is that is the fans would rather see some sort of a undercard than a 2 hour race at a short track alone..... any views ?

scott

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Thanx Scott for the response .

Im not saying every race should pay $25,000 to win , but the 300 should . I do feel that the minimum winning purse should be $10,000. If I am not mistaken that is what the Hooters Pro-Cup Series purse is . But until someone signs that TV deal I guess that is never going to happen .

The "undercard" point is also very good . BUT one or two support divisions is more than enough . Once again I will use the 300 for my example.The 300 is a two day show .Saturday practice and qualifying , Sunday features . Now with a 300 lap Modified race already do we really need the Sunoco and Thompson Modifieds also? To me it is overkill . I feel when the Tour is at any track some of the other divisions should be left out to increase the money available to pay for the Tour . Another example would be the Outlaws at Lebanon Valley , they run just the Modifieds as a support division and it works fine .

Thanx again Scott . I think more people need to comment on this one .

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Ok come on now people , i know you must have at least one comment to make so PLEASE POST SOMETHING . 70 VIEWS AND ONLY A FEW RESPONSES .

Ben Althen · Moderator

lets see, heres my comments. as far as haulers go, a driver i know has had a smaller trailer, and a larger 53 footer. he preffered the smaller trailer since he thinks the big one is an awful lot for the small shows the tour have compared to the top 3.

Lucky Dog. either you have it or you dont, keep it the same ofr every track.

you dont need wind tunnels for the Mods. the only track where it makes a difference is Loudon, maybe Thompson but i wouldnt be too sure about that.

i think any cost saving measure is good. its no fun having to buy the newest thing when the money is not there just to stay competitive.

the lengths of the races are fine i think, a good variety of laps.

the 300 is the biggest race, and i think it should have the biggest purse.

just my 2 cents from an SK crew guy.

openwheelracer · Admin/Mod/Eyewitness

Ok WMT here goes,

1. The haulers are a bit much, but I don't see them coming out with a "Maximum hauler size allowed" rule anytime soon so....

2. Wind tunnels? come on ...... how's that fair? Think the #33 and #9 will be stoppin' by the tunnel to see how their cars act in "yaw"?

3. Lucky dog? Wonder what Ed Flemke Sr and Richie would think of giving somebody their lap back?

4. Mufflers, smufflers! Build some of those highway barriers around the tracks, keep the yuppie neighbors happy, throw the mufflers out and "let them dogs eat" lol.

5. I don't have a problem with the Riverheads, Seekonks, and Waterfords being 150 lappers, but some of the non bullrings dont need to be 200 laps.

6. The 300 is the 300 dont mess with tradition, the boys in Florida are doing enough of that with the Nextel Cup series. As far as the purse, when the winner in the mid 80's made $12,000 and last year's winner made $8880 whats wrong with that picture?

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Thanx for the reply Ben . It is great to see someone from the SK level voice their oppinion as well . The way things are going , i see it being a matter of time before the SK type modifieds begin touring as well .

Thanx again .

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Well thank you Openwheel . Your response was much anticipated .

I think Richie and Ed Flemke Sr . would smack the boys in Daytona if the ever heard of a "Lucky Dog" rule .

Why has no one thought of the highway barrier yet . Build them all the way around the track and charge outrageous amounts of money for loacal companies to put their names on them . Some tracks sort of have them ,but this realy is a GREAT idea . Modifeds are know for their ground pounding noise , so mufflers just do not seem right to me .

Your point about the purses for the 300 is AWESOME . I actually think the purse was around $14,000 to win back in the eighties . Now the teams are paying more to race for less . Granted the pay for lower positions has gotten better , but still . I stiil think one of the easiest ways to get more money is through a 50/50 raffle and lap sponsorship . And also dropping a few support divisions . The 300 is the Daytona 500 of modified racing, and the purse should reflect that .

Thanx for the response OpenWheel.

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Ok there have been over 100 views of this post , yet only a handful of replys . Now I know more of you have opinions about my points . So PLEASE respond . Even if it is to tell me I am crazy , I still would like to know .

-- Edited by WhelenModifiedTour at 19:51, 2005-06-17

-- Edited by WhelenModifiedTour at 00:45, 2005-06-18

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

After you read these , you may want to check out my newer post "more thoughs"

Date: Wed Jun 22 16:27:44 2005

Ok here are my Thoughts:

The teams witht he 18 wheelers have no right to bitch about how expensive tour racing is...PERIOD!

Wind Tunnels?? If thats the case then Nascar should just dirty the cars up with out notice... big old wicker on the roof!

As a former driver I say the Lucky dogs is a pile of crap!! DOWN A LAP?? SORRY TODAYS NOT YOUR DAY!!!! Maybe next week! I worked hard to put you a lap down, and you should work twice as hard to make it up!!!

Mufflers??? I say run what you want to, Im sure some teams have deals where the mufflers are free

" track itself could put up more by dropping some of the support divisions . when we already have a 300 lap event , how many other races do we really need? The race should pay $25,000 to win "

That statement itself infuriates me to no end. The reason? Take a Thompson where a pit pass on tour night is $50 ( thats for a support divison) BUT if i were lucky enough to work with a tour team I could have pre-signed for $25.00 . The support divisions get raped every time a touring division come to town!! I would even go as far as to say with out the support divisions the purses would be lower!

JUST MY $.02

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

Thank You for replying anon.

1. I think we all agree with the 18 wheeler points

2. The Lucky Dog is a joke . But should be NEVER or ALWAYS used , not sometimes yes sometimes no.

3. Your point about the pit passes is valid . I worked for Tour teams so I know about pre-sign . And I totally agree the regular weekly guys get screwed when the tour comes to town .But that goes with my point of keeping support divisions home on big nights . The tracks have way too much money to pay out , and unfortunately the little guy ends up getting screwed . Something needs to change there . Less divisions to pay out to means the track need to take in less money to break even . It seems to be a losing situation no matter what right now and needs to be addressed VERY soon .

Thanx again for responding .

WhelenModifiedTour · WMT Moderator

After reading this post and "More Thoughts" you can also check out the post "More crazy ideas for the Tour".

Also PLEASE post your opinions on theses thoughts.

-- Edited by WhelenModifiedTour at 13:31, 2005-09-04